but what is the evidence in the last four years or even since the election that mr. obama won't pocket that victory and then refuse to offer any but token changes on entitlements." >> that's a reversal of what they wrote a few weeks ago where republicans will take the victory in keeping them from going up. >> but if you take this deal now -- that's been the hesitation. the problem is you have no leverage. if you take the deal now, you really lose everything in being able to negotiate about spending cuts, right? >> well, i think that a deal is to be made that would benefit the people if it were done earlier. and the incentive is knowing that the scenario that the "the wall street journal" put forth could take place. we need a discussion right now, and we need to have a discussion where we could have sensible solutions with regard to the safe any net programs as well as the tax cuts. >> what's on the table for the democrats? >> i think what judy is saying is very true. we're going to get to this point anyway. it's just a question of when and how much damage will be don